The latest rumor is that if Belichick is found guilty of taping the Rams’ final practice before Super Bowl XXXVI, he could be suspended up to one year. Not sure what to think on that yet. Also, Goodell has stated he will offer Matt Walsh legal protection if he comes out with more info. The story was on ESPN:
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said Wednesday at the Pro Bowl that the NFL is willing to give former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh legal indemnification for any information and materials he would provide to the league regarding his work with the Patriots.
February 6, 2008 at 8:02 pm |
I believe the Pats can do fine without him. What a loser!
February 7, 2008 at 9:48 am |
Things like this are not that simple. In order to implicate Bill, even if a tape exists, they need to prove a) Belichick ordered for the tape to be created and b) Somehow prove that the tape was indeed used by the coaching staff.
And Clark, he is NOT a loser! He may not be the classiest guy on the planet but without him Parcells does not win SB’s in 1987 and 1991. He is a very smart coach. He has had a very high success rate in NE. Players still have to execute plays in order to win ballgames.
Everyone is ready to blow him out of NE, would you rather go back to the Pete Carroll days when we couldn’t win a game with players like Bledsoe, Curtis Martin, Terry Glenn? These players and the offense was modeled after the 3 time Super Bowl team, Dallas Cowboys…Carroll had the talent to win and couldn’t do shit. Parcells walked out on us the week of the GB/NE SB. Should we bring him back, the trader who goes to a divisional rival? Was that a classy move? Do you want to go back to the Hugh Millen days? Do you want to see Missin Sissin’ as our kicker again?
Boston fans have NOTHING to feel bad about…..we won 2 WS’s. 3 SB’sin the last 7 years. the Celts are hot, the B’s are possibly going to return to the playoffs, the Revs are a very good team. We need to stop blaming Bill for everything. He is NOT on the field making plays. NOONE is blaming the Offensive line and they clearly did not do their job in SB 42. Yes, Bill had some coaching blunders (4-13, and the last 35 seconds) BUT…once again, we had three chances to pick off Manning in the final run and we had butterfingers….someone picks him off, like it should have happend….we win and we are not even talking about Billy B and Brady being the goats!
February 7, 2008 at 7:37 pm |
It sucks thats all I can say Greg I hope its ok I linked to your site from my Blog.
February 9, 2008 at 10:32 am |
i just don’t think coach B prepared well for the SB. I think they thought the game was a lock and they were destined to make history. You could see it on their faces during the game. Coach B was so preoccupied with making history and breaking records that he forgot what the most important thing is and that’s winning the SB.
So the Pats season has to be considered a failure. the Giants are considered the best team of the year and they didn’t have to break any records to do that.
February 11, 2008 at 6:47 pm |
Here’s the deal, and it’s real. First, this isn’t a court of law(yet), and Goodell has already shown he doesn’t need “Proof” of anything to lay the smack down. Tank Johnson was caught driving POSSIBLY intoxicated. He got slammed before the BAC Test came back. That came back negative. He was legal to drive. Pacman Jones had not been proven “guilty” of anything yet except being a wannabe thug-type but he got hammered just the same. They don’t need proof to hammer Bellicheck. Everyone knows that there’s been something shady surrounding his sudden success. Weeks ago Marshall Faulk was talking about SB36 and how good the Pats played. He noted that they seemed to have psychics calling plays, because they knew everything the Rams did before the Rams knew. Now Marshall is trying to hold back his tongue and be the consummate gentleman at this point in his career because he’s getting ready for the HOF – as a player his story was different.
Everyone knows the Pats have been cheating and doing this for a long, long time…it’s just been overlooked but now has run it’s course. So by “Proof” all they need is the tapes…or at very least for Walsh to make a statement on record saying that Bellichick had him do it, and that it was used to gain an advantage. That’s it, game over, lay down the punishment. Going after the tapes is a formality at best, they destroyed the last ones and nobody else was allowed to view them, so producing them is a minor thing anyway. Fact is, everyone’s tired of it, the pressure is on and the squeaky wheel is going to get the grease. I’m sure the punishment is already decided, it’s just now starting the process of keeping popular opinion high while the NFL lays it down. They don’t need proof, they just need excuses and explanations – that’s all they’re working on right now whether a tape or tapes surface or not.
February 11, 2008 at 9:56 pm |
i’m a celtic fan that has been happy to see the pats help us C fans keep the faith when times where tough the past 20 years! If indeed pats get punished futher & start losing…. it’s part of sports….vicks goes to jail…..sports needs to stay clean so as a biased fan I respect Bill but if he did cheat regardless of what other coachs do then I’m sorry for all NFL fans this past decade because the best team in the league cheated.
February 12, 2008 at 9:45 am |
Hmmm….that’s funny because Dick Vermeil (Former Rams coach) went on the record (espn.com) stating that this stuff has been going on for years and it still comes fown to players making plays and that filming in overrated and cannot dictate the outcome of a game….
February 12, 2008 at 2:36 pm |
That may be Coach Vermiels pre-installed excuse should it ever catch up to him for filming, but anyone who believes that is an idiot. If you KNOW you’re facing a 3 deep zone by the signal called, then you don’t get confused by disguised coverage and you KNOW you can run over them with a gambit of run plays. That’s a HUGE advantage, I don’t care what your excuse is. If you KNOW the corners are coming on a blitz and the safeties are high because you KNOW the defensive call, once again you don’t get confused by disguised coverage and you can throw the ball to either post because the corners are coming at you and the safeties have 15 yeards to makeup before they get in a defensive position. KNOWING what’s coming makes the execution of plays a thousand times easier. I have great respect for Coach Vermiel, but let’s face it, everyone is going to try to downplay this because either they’ve done it themselves, or they’re trying to support a friend or collegue that they’re close to.
Let me give you a different scenario:
At the end of a game, say the last 5 minutes – the team with the lead invariably runs every down. The defense KNOWS they’re running, there’s no doubt. That’s why guys like Marshall Faulk who averaged about 5-6 YPC on their career will only get about a yard per carry in the last 5 minutes of a game when they’re leading. The defense KNOWS it’s coming. Normally even the high-caliber backs in the league get 1ypc or a loss in this situation. It’s because the other side knows without a doubt what’s coming.
Look at QB’s who throw an unusual amount of INT’s in the last 5 minutes when trailing in a game. The defense KNOWS they HAVE TO throw the ball, there’s no guesswork so it’s a 3 man rush 8 in coverage package and the INT’s flow like water.
Now, pay attention to Peyton’s conversation with Eli post-Superbowl. “…remember that conversation we had a couple of months ago, you WANT this situation down 4 so a field goal won’t make it…that way you KNOW they’re going to blitz and sit on their routes and you can beat them with man coverage…if you’re down 3 they won’t blitz and you can’t make that throw…” that’s a little different scenario, but the same result. That’s a single situation where the offense KNOWS what’s coming legitimately, and the players are still required to make the play.
Now, think of all these scenarios, I don’t care who your personal team is I guarantee you’ve seen it from both cases…leading and trailing. The plays are so predictable that it’s almost scripted. As for filming defensive packages and stealing the play calls…that makes the entire game just like these situations, but the difference is you can prepare for it. You change your offensive packages to look like the defense called is going to beat you, so the line or the backers don’t audible to something else and then you torch them. THAT is a huge difference, and a less skilled team can beat a more skilled team every time that way.
It’s like being able to read your girlfriend or wifes mind. Wouldn’t you win every argument? Wouldn’t you always know the right things to say, even if your intentions were wrong? Same deal. Filming and stealing play calls & playbooks is a HUGE difference, I don’t care what bigtime coach says different.
February 12, 2008 at 3:37 pm |
Hahahaha!!!
You rock Raiders…I especially like the Wife comment…So true…Well, you I may not agree with all your points, but you make a valid argument with lots of substance and I appreciate a good fan of the game, which you are!!!
So now that you won my respect…I have a question….Do you think lots of teams are doing this and the Pat’s just got caught? Do you think that it is a widespread issue in football. Perhaps the Pat’s are the goat in this case because of their recent success?
What do you think?
February 12, 2008 at 5:16 pm |
Honestly, I do think it’s more common than people would imagine…definitely on a much smaller scale for sure. Let’s face it, there’s a sign hanging in my team (Raiders) locker room that says “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying”. Colored tape, gloves, that kind of stuff can all be construed that way because it makes it too hard to catch a lot of holds and punches, for example. Filming, sure it happens when it’s available. Even Oaklands new coach Kiffin would be retarded not to view what’s going on during warmups & stuff prior to a game. That is common to every home team, and one of the advantages. Watch the sidelines and you’ll see all kinds of stuff that will help during a game, and it’s all available from the in-house media cameras. Last year, I can’t remember the team, but during warmups the home team happened to notice a QB practicing an odd shovel pass several times during the pre-game warmup. It was actually in the background during a live broadcast, they went to in-house cameras and replayed it to see what he was up to. Later during that game, the coach knew it was coming at some point, recognized something the QB did in warmups and had his defense ready for it. Turns out, it got picked off and taken back to the house.
I watch as many games as possible, every year. Just watching that many games, and having football background myself, I can predict a lot more than your average fan. The NFL channel plays in my office basically 24/7 and I pay attention to everything. Now from just limited (in comparison to coaches) media, an eye for detail and some knowledge will help predict things. Part of a coaches job is to do what they can to help their team win. Part of that is definitely home teams taping the opposing coaches, why do you think they have paper over their mouths when they speak in the mics? Ex-Swat are often hired to sit in skyboxes and try to read lips through scopes/binoculars. Nobody talks about it much, but look how much effort is made on the field to never let your lips be seen when talking. There’s a lot of stuff that goes on people take for granted, it’s part of the game as far as I’m concerned.
The big diference, I honestly feel, is when someone blatantly takes it too far like Bellichick has. The NFL has its dirty little secrets, just like any organization – but when someone makes them front page by wearing a hole in the carpet, or just going plain overboard and taking it to completely new heights…that’s the issue here. According to a lot of leaked info around the league, it’s not uncommon for Bellichick (and I’m sure others) to buy things from other team staff like janitors, caterers, etc.
In a nutshell though, is it done – yeah, I’m sure most teams do it on a minor scale with publicly available footage and house-tapes. Illegal or immoral? I think maybe immoral (maybe). But a Mission: Impossible expedition to exploit anything possible from planted recorders, stealing playbooks off the other teams bench, paying for aireal footage, paying cleaning staff to take photo’s of boardroom whiteboards, etc – and then claiming you THOUGHT it was “Just common practice” that’s pretty bold and nobody wants it going to that extent.
February 14, 2008 at 7:13 pm |
Good. Just suspend him already. I’m pissed we sold our souls and rooted for that creepy cheater in the first place.
February 16, 2008 at 12:56 pm |
Let’s put this cheating stuff to rest. The only advantage Belicheik and the Patriots received from their so-called cheating is the opposition’s game plan against their team. They also might have acquired a few defensive and offensive audibles. Most of that information I mentioned can be acquired from normal game film; he just got a more updated version, a “read me” for example on new computer hardware or software.
Next, let’s leave the players out of it. There’s not enough time to see video shot on game day. There just listening what their coach has to say. If Belicheik tells Brady if the defense gives this signal, they’re going to throw a zone blitz at you. Brady’s job is not to question Belicheik where he got that information; Brady’s job is to know a zone blitz is coming and what to do.
Finally, get over this Super Bowl thing. Come on! Taping a walk through! First of all, it’s alledged and not totally proven, yet. Secondly, you might get a tiny edge on how they’re going to attack you. And if a team is stupid enough to let a camera into a closed practice, then they deserve everything they get. By the scores of those games, I’m satisfied that the Patriots would have won whether or not they had that information. I’m a huge Buccaneers fan, but in a way Gruden cheated when he knew the Raider’s signals and Gannon’s tendencies for Super Bowl XXXVII. He just came over from the Raiders, and the Raiders were stupid enough not to change their signals, so there is what is perceived as cheating going around every professional sports venue.
Having said all of the above if there is a NFL rule prohibiting the video taping of game day or other practices of the opposition, then I feel the NFL should suspend Belechiek because ignorance of a rule is no excuse. I feel no other penalties should be imposed for the Patriots.
Cheers All!
PS – Specter and Congress should be worried about our falling economy and other important issues; not what is happening with a professional sports league. Spectre, this fan is speaking out. Get your nose out of the NFL and into getting rid of all these illegal immigrants, doing something to boost the economy, and basically your job!
February 16, 2008 at 2:06 pm |
John, AKA Dumb-Dumb, what do you think a walk-thru consists of? It’s similar to a unformal dress-rehearsal for a wedding. They go through the motions, no pads, and simulate the OPPONENTS known defenses from LEGAL gamefilm and what they have tendencies to do in similar situations. Then the offense, anticipating the defense to stick to their habits disguise their formations to “trick” the defense into being out of place. Then they do the same thing with defensive formations against the opponents known offensive tendencies and work on disguising them as well. If you tape that, see that, know that you’re going to destroy that team because you KNOW how they disguise their plays and you can HEAR the play called instead of trying to figure out if the formations are real and fake.
You don’t think that had anything to do with the SB36 win over t he Rams? That’s just retarded. Stop making excuses for these lame, cheating, whining, classless morons and accept that being a fan doesn’t make their actions right.
As for “alleged and not proven yet” yeah, YET is the key word. Walsh has already stated that this material, and tons more that will implicate the Patriots on many years worth of doing this to all of their opponents DOES EXIST. He has posession of it, and it IS REAL. He has already spoken with ESPN upper management, and made offers to the NFL and some other large wealth powers to offer it up to the public. He said as soon as he recieves guarantees in writing, that A: One of these entities will agree to cover 100% of his legal fees, fines, and other costs related to illegally taping other teams and stealing intellectual property with the intent to defraud and B: that he is granted legal amnesty for civil/criminal penalties that he will give up the farm. He already has an attorney retained who is working on hammering out a deal for him, and while this 100 Million dollar lawsuit unfolds, the attorneys that are representing the class action suit have agreed that they can subpoena Walsh and MAKE him talk, under the penalty of purjory but they would rather have him cooperative.
They have also stated that they intend to have Bellicheat on the stand in a deposition, and when he refuses to talk he can face jail time under the laws of purjory. Mr. “This is behind us, I have no comment on that, it’s a league matter” could be Michael Vicks bunkie before long. I can’t wait to hear about Bubba, the 385lb serial rapist who just happens to be a Rams fan invites him to his cell to play rummy.
Also, your comment about Specter and Congress should be worried about the economy – that’s just another uneducated statement. Specters primary job is to investigate issues that deal with labor trades, anti-trust in business and union issues. Congress doesn’t deal with our economy or budget, they just vote on bills & such that are brought before them by the people who do deal with the budget & economy issues. Next time you go to Wal-mart, why don’t you ask the greeter if they would mind opening the optometry department and making you a new pair of glasses. After all, the greeter is a Wal-Mart employee so that must be his job too.